you predict

ne would do

ot one, but two of his sons were gay? ots.

viet Union.

half younger. Four sons two are gay and two are heterosexual. It just so happens that the two gay ones are the middle sons.

What about your second son, Wayne? Did he come right out and tell you he is gay?

Yes, he came out to us himself. I guess it was three years after we knew about Jonathan. I noticed the places that Wayne was going. He was going out to gay bars and I said Wayne, I don't like the idea of you going to these places if you're going to make fun of the gay people. He told me no, I go to have a good time... we drink and dance and have a good time. I asked him why he went to the gay bars; he said "because I'm bisexual."

I was surprised, because he had been very active heterosexually. I was aware of his lifestyle, because as I said we were a close family and we talked

ional vice president and spokesperson for about it. That was okay with me just

of Lesbians and Gays.

y, particularly with us; he was becomng quite distant. We were always a close-knit family, all spent a lot of time ogether.

All of a sudden, in his senior year of high school, Johnny began to have difficulty at school. A very bright young man, at 16 he was a senior. He was reticent to talk about it said there were no problems he couldn't handle. At the time my wife and I were in therapy for marital counseling. We talked about our whole family situation, and we talked about Johnny. We suggested to Johnny it might be a good idea for him to get counseling too; we sent him to the agency that we were dealing with. He didn't see our counselor but saw a psychiatrist there.

As it turns out, the agency has a practice of all of the therapists meeting together, so our therapist knew what Johnny's problem was although we didn't. However, he kind of led us along the way to questioning what was troublng him, and we figured out his problem may be that he is homosexual and is maving a difficult time adjusting to it.

I had a problem, though, in accepting t. My first reaction was, whatever it takes we'll even sell the house! we'll do we have to do to get Johnny fixed." So we approached Johnny but of course with the attitude I had it didn't go well. I was a homophobic bigot, to be honest... I relished telling queer jokes openly. I didn't think there was anything wrong with that was the way I believed. I thought homosexuals were depraved creatures who wanted to be that way and were dong perverse things because they vanted to be perverse. I couldn't even say the word "homosexual." I would say "are you having a problem with girls are you having a problem relating to

that

girls? Are you having a problem dating?" So obviously I was giving him a very straightforward signal and he in turn always denied it to me.

But after going to only three or four counseling sessions, he recognized he needed to accept what he was. After coming back from a session one day, my wife sat him down and said, "John, I think I know what your problem is you think you are homosexual and you're having a problem accepting it." He admitted to her that was what he was wrestling with they cried with each other and talked. She said "we love you no matter what... We want to help you."

Well, at this point I had this need to find out information, because I thought I knew what a homosexual was. But I knew my son and he didn't fit that image at all. They just couldn't be the same. I was fortunate in that I just happened to hear an interview on the radio with Jean and Jules Manford (cofounders of Parents of Gays, the forerunner of PFLAG) about their homosexual son, how they are proud of him and about the organization they started.

I stopped my car and pulled over and called Elaine. She got the information and we went to the meeting. We didn't want to be seen, much less say anything. But we met some wonderful people, some very nice gay people. They directed us to the proper places to read about homosexuality and we worked at it. We learned because of the big investment of love we had in our kids.

How long ago was this experience? That was 13 years ago John just had his 29th birthday. Since then we have found out that we have a second son who is gay; he's about a year and a

don't pull any punches and fool yourself or anyone else. Surprisingly, at that time, my wife had a difficult time with Wayne's homosexuality. It didn't take her long to realize that her problem was not with Wayne's homosexuality, but with the way Wayne lived his life; she didn't like some of the things he was doing. It really had absolutely nothing to do with his sexuality. Fortunately, she quickly recognized what it was and came to terms with Wayne about it. As I said, we are an open family. We say what we feel and think and try not to hurt each other.

What was your reaction when you found out you had two gay sons?

Believe it or not, it really had no effect on me. It didn't make any difference that Wayne was gay as well as Johnny. By that time I came to my understanding, I learned that there isn't something wrong with someone who's homosexual, it is just a different way that people are. It is not my way and I couldn't be that way, but that has nothing to do with it.

I used to stand up and say at meetings, "If I had my druthers, I'd rather my kids were heterosexuals," because parents want their kids to have the easiest way through life possible, and being gay in this society is more difficult than being heterosexual. But I don't say that anymore. I stand up and say, "I'm glad my two gay sons are gay because that is what they are, they accept and know themselves, are happy with themselves, and are living good, straightforward, honest lives." All of my boys are. And because of their gayness I have met the nicest people I have known in my life. I have the best friends I have ever had because of my work in the parents group and the Gay Rights Congress. From a selfish point of view I benefited myself from it all because I'm not a bigot anymore. I became a better person.

What led you to become active in

PFLAG to the extent you are now?

I got such tremendous help when I first went to the parents' meetings. I recognized that the help I got made me better. Not only that, it made me feel better and because of that I wanted to reach out to other people. I know the pain I had when I first went to PFLAG. I was hurting. I thought it was a tragedy in my life and for my child. The group helped me to stop hurting and to learn because of that, I feel we owe it to other people to do the same thing for them that they did for us. You've been vice president of PFLAG for how long now?

Oh, years, I don't know. I've been active on the board or as an officer for 10 years.

How do you like doing interviews on TV and radio? Is it something that's difficult for you?

It is not difficult at all. I am happy to do it because I am happy to spread the word to anybody, to try and stop the bigotry and prejudice to educate society. Let me tell you a little anecdote: A number of years ago a company I worked for was going out of business. I'm in the hotel kitchen cabinet industry, and I was sales manager of a company going out of business. I applied for a position with several other companies, was interviewed and was called in for a second interview with three companies. In each of the interviews, I told the people of my involvement with PFLAG, that I had gay sons and frequently spoke in public, and I would continue to do so. I was offered the job by all three companies.

When you make an appearance, does your wife usually go with you?

It depends. She has done appearances by herself. She's been on some TV programs. It works both ways

we are happy to go together or separately.

Do you have any favorite "war stories" that came out of making these public appearances?

Not really in public appearances. One time the president of the first company I worked for knew I was active and had a gay son. We were taking a very important client out to lunch, and while we were at the table he proceeded to tell a queer joke. I said, "John, I'm sorry, but I have a gay son and I find those jokes offensive." He stopped and apologized. After lunch he asked me not to take offense to what was said, saying he didn't know. I gave him a lecture about homosexuality and sexuality and he apologized again. I don't like putting people on the spot like that, but there is a principle at stake!

For more information on PFLAG in the Los Angeles area: call (213) 472-8952; in Pomona Valley: (714) 624-6134; in Orange County: (714) 998-5844.

Reprinted courtesy of Au Courant, a Philadelphia, Pennsylvania gay/lesbian newsweekly.

EDGE May 13, 1987 33